Date: 2009-06-03 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] repis.livejournal.com
Что самое ужасное - то, что все эти причины взаимосвязаны и влияют не по отдельности, а в цепочке. Здравоохранение рухнуло -----рост невылечиваемых заболеваний----безнадега------алкоголизм ------падение рождаемости ------рост смертности---уменьшение населения, занятого в производстве ----падение экономики --- упадок здравоохранения --- и так далее... И сравнение с "Титаником" вполне легитимно.

Date: 2009-06-03 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aptsvet.livejournal.com
Самое ужасное даже не это, а то, что никто не обращает внимания. На "Титанике" все-таки обратили.

Date: 2009-06-03 09:51 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-06-03 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shkrobius.livejournal.com
I've seen it being said a thousand times, and it is presently commonplace. Do you mean that the government has to do something about it? I do not believe they know what to do more than anyone else. If people do not care whether they are dead or alive, what can the government do? If the most destitute people around the world in the most dire of circumstances have kids, but the Russians do not, what can the government do? The living standards are certainly not worse than 200 years ago, when there were kids everywhere. What is broken is too deep for the best of the governments to reach. How do you suggest it to regulate people's hearts?

In every government, though terrors reign,
Though tyrant kings, or tyrant laws restrain,
How small, of all that human hearts endure,
That part which laws or kings can cause or cure!

Date: 2009-06-03 10:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aptsvet.livejournal.com
I am not the government and have no intention to become one. But it is natural to assume that people who made an effort to become government would at least attempt to alleviate a catastrophic problem. There is no ready solution that would come to mind. But tinkering with a public health system would be an excellent place to start and the most obvious. Improving the natal care, e. g., which appears to be in terrible shape.
Edited Date: 2009-06-03 10:26 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-06-03 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shkrobius.livejournal.com
The natal care was in this shape -- if not in a worse shape -- 20, 30, 40, and 50 years ago. You write that the pattern observed fits a country at war. Who is fighting whom? It is not like there are good guys that cannot wait to be fruitful and multiply and bad guys sabotaging this imperative. It is a war indeed, but it is the kind of war where governments can only do random things and take credit for successes which are not theirs. I do not know what to do. But I am not suggesting a materialistic remedy for the spiritual disease. Nobody but the people themselves can have faith in tomorrow. The government is the last institution to provide such faith. Without it, the war of attrition against oneself will go on. Faith does not grow on scorched land and it cannot be nurtured by looking across the border. A new way of growning this faith needs be invented, because the old ways do not work. Just this one little thing. If that fails, nothing will do. It would be yet another country to dissapear through the loss of this faith.

Date: 2009-06-03 11:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aptsvet.livejournal.com
>The government is the last institution to provide such faith.

Hitler did though. But this is certainly not what I would advocate.

As to health care, I do not think you are quite right. I happened to take advantage of the Soviet health care on all too numerous occasions. While barely serviceable, it was a far cry from the current state, as people who study it with more care than I do agree.

Date: 2009-06-04 05:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shkrobius.livejournal.com
If anyone can "do something," my first choice would be a prophet and my second choice would be a poet. Inventing a new case for procreation and long life is a delicate job.

Your mentioning of Hitler reminded me of a senior friend of mine, a German-American named Klaus. In his teens, Klaus was in Hitler youth; you should've seen his face when he remembered his salad days and I never quite followed what he liked so much about marching in boots. Then he told me something I did not know. In summer, kids were sent to some sort of boy scout camps. Starting from age 15, there were always girl scout camps right next door. Between the two camps they put a line of strategically spaced heystacks. Klaus told me that in the morning their uniforms and hair were examined and who did not have hey on them did the dirty jobs. The general idea, if I understtod him corretly was producing more Aryans by means of teenage pregnancy.

Here you have it: the government doing something. It is for the best that they do nothing.

Re: lehr from

Date: 2009-06-04 01:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aptsvet.livejournal.com
Очень прошу от подобных комментарией впредь воздерживаться. Особенно от спамовых заголовков.

Date: 2009-06-04 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfisiy.livejournal.com
Всё знакомо, но на мой взгляд, не совсем точно. Если есть время почитать довольно подробную заметку - мне более близки оценки, высказанные здесь.

Date: 2009-06-04 01:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aptsvet.livejournal.com
Увы, вот об этой статье я лучше мнения высказывать не буду.

Date: 2009-06-04 03:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vol4ec.livejournal.com
... и время от времени очередную партию пассажиров сбрасывают в воду (балласт)...

Date: 2009-06-04 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] plakhov.livejournal.com
Можно добавить еще плакаты на улицах Москвы с призывом плодиться и размножаться

Года два уже как. Строго говоря, под улицами.

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